You Said It. That Doesn't Mean They Heard It. | Betsy Butterick

Most coaches assume communication happened because they delivered the message.

But athletes don't respond to what was said.

They respond to what they heard, understood, and believed.

In this conversation, communication specialist Betsy Butterick explains why many of the frustrations coaches experience stem from what she calls the "illusion of understanding," which is the belief that everyone is on the same page when they actually aren't.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The illusion of understanding and why it creates conflict
• Why communication is more than delivering information
• Common mistakes coaches make when setting expectations
• Practical ways to improve communication with athletes
• Creating more alignment inside your team

🎧 This conversation originally took place inside Momentum Sessions, a free community for coaches who take culture seriously.

Join future live conversations and connect with other coaches at:

👉 momentumteams.com/sessions

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

That's awesome where I see coaches and athletes miss each other, where miscommunication starts and then grows. And I always think about how frustration, disappointment, fractured relationships multiply in the space between expectations and reality.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

We're joined by Betsy Butterick, known as the Coach's Coach and a specialist in championship communication. As a former coach and collegiate basketball player, and through her current work with many top college programs, the Raiders, and Wii Coach, Betsy helps coaches build the kind of communication that drives connection, accountability, and team chemistry. She's also the author of a new book, Kids These Days: Effective Strategies for Coaching Gen Z and Beyond. So, Betsy, thanks so much for being here. When you walk into programs today, what's maybe the communication breakdown you see most often between coaches and athletes?

SPEAKER_01 0:59

The communication breakdown I see most often, Matt, is that we think there's understanding. And I say we meaning both coaches and athletes. Like a coach will say something they think they've been clear and everybody understands. Or athletes think that they've communicated clearly to a coach. And the subtext for most of the problematic we think there's understanding falls into me for the bucket of unspoken expectations. So maybe a conversation happens between a coach and an athlete, but the two parties leave with very different expectations about what happens next. And we're just like missing each other in small moments. And then oftentimes a coach hears about that expectation for the first time on something like an end-of-season survey. So that's often where I see coaches and athletes miss each other, where miscommunication starts and then grows. And I always think about how frustration, disappointment, fractured relationships multiply in the space between expectations and reality. So the sooner we can get those in a closer alignment, the more we can create shared understanding, the better everyone stands to be. But that's typically the biggest breakdown that I see most frequently across all sports, all levels of sport.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

How do you think about solving that?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, if only people were better communicators, you know. Like I wish there was a communication specialist out there. I'm kidding. Um, I think we can solve this by changing the way we have conversations. So a few things that I like to offer for coaches, because it's always much easier to shift or change as one person than it is to try to shift or change the people that you are working with. Also, a lot more variables that you can tap into here versus everywhere else. So a question I often encourage coaches to ask themselves is what's the most important thing that your athletes need to know or understand about you in order to be able to interpret you correctly most of the time? It's never going to be perfect. But if we can be intentional as coaches about sharing the information that helps our athletes better interpret our message in the spaces where we miss the mark, already we're at a better starting point than if we didn't give them that information. So that's one thing that coaches can do. What athletes can do is they can ask for clarification. And sometimes they don't feel like there's the space to ask, right? And often there's also additional factors. So I'll have athletes say, well, as the adult, you know, they need to be more clear. Or, well, it's their responsibility to, okay, if that's not helpful, if it's not getting you the information you need, then you have a choice to make a change to see a different result. So a lot of times across sports, coaches will convey information to their team. And then what comes next is some version of, okay, everybody got it? And like the coach is already nodding their head, and now mirror neurons are firing, and so the team's like, yeah, yeah. And then the coach turns away and I watch teammates turn to each other and like, what are we doing? Right. It's like we think we're being clear, and in service of time, what we're asking for when we say, everybody got it, or okay, we're looking for affirmation, we're not asking or indexing for information. So another thing a coach can do is change the way you ask the questions after you've taught something or communicate something important. So, for example, I might teach something and say, okay, what two questions are top of mind that will be helpful for me to circle back on or to clarify. Instead of saying everybody got it, and a layer up from that as far as effectiveness would be, you know, are there any questions? Very classic. A small shift in language there from are there any questions to what questions do you have? I've removed the barriers through your language of someone first having to admit they have a question. Sometimes, especially as a facilitator, I'll take additional steps and really put the onus of understanding or being someone who has clearly communicated, put that responsibility on myself. And I might say something like, in everything I've just shared, I know there's likely something that would be helpful to clarify. Maybe I didn't communicate as effectively as I could have. This would be a great time to let me know what that is for you. So I'm taking the responsibility of misunderstanding, shouldering that, and then inviting them to just point me in the right direction. So there's so many different ways we can provide opportunities for athletes if they don't feel like they have the space to ask that question. Because when a coach says everybody got it, and what they really want is to move on, it's very challenging for athletes of all genders, all sports to say, hey, hey, hold on, coach, slow down. I I could use some clarification here.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

That is so huge. I'm uh I need to hear that message, especially the everything good, because I was just talking to somebody and I literally said that same exact thing. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah, and you just named another one. Like, does that make sense? And even I I find myself saying that sometimes context matters always. What we need to understand as coaches is oftentimes when we say, does that make sense? An athlete can genuinely have something make sense to them, yet not yet have the ability to translate insight into action. There's different systems happening here. So logically, I understand what you're saying to me, coach. Physically, I don't yet have whether it's motor planning skills or visual representation or like muscle memory enough to duplicate the thing that I understand. So we keep telling them the same thing and they say they understand, and we're frustrated that they can't do it. Okay, we need to back up and we need to try a slightly different approach because they do, they get it, they hear you, but that hasn't yet helped them in a way that they need to be able to go and execute.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

And when a coach probably says something like, I know I explained it clearly, but they know it still didn't quite land, what's usually happening in that moment?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah, yeah. Like everybody got it? Yeah, right. It's like, oh, uh, I'm seeing some confusion out there. Like, tell me what I can circle back on, or what would be helpful to clarify. One of my favorite ways to do it is almost for older generations, like a mad lib style, kind of fill in the blank. So let's say I explain a drill, then before we actually go start the drill, instead of explaining it again, which again, falling on deaf ears, short attention spans, I've already said it, they've heard me the first time, even if they haven't taken it in fully. Instead, I'm going to engage and involve them. So I might explain the drill. And a classic example I use as a former basketball coach is like a three-player weave. So if I say in a moment, we're going to do a three-player weave. I need three lines on the baseline. Balls are going to start in the center line. We need two balls in the center line. As you pass the ball up the court, you're going to run behind the person that you pass to. So I explain the drill. But then before we start the drill, I might say, okay, in a moment we're going to start. How many lines do we need on the baseline? And they say three. Where what line are the balls going to start in? The middle. How many balls do we need? Two. When you pass to someone, where do you run next? Behind the person. Okay. So now I'm creating greater clarity. I'm also inviting active participation without the pressure of responsibility being on any one person. They're like, Matt, do you understand what we're doing? Right? It's like, ah, okay. Now that's labeled targeting instead of coaching with a lot of today's athletes. So there's there's a variety of ways that we can do this, even without putting any of the onus of responsibility for clarity on our athletes.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

And you also talk a lot about reach them before you teach them. Yeah. What does that actually look like inside a locker room or at a practice?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

It looks like establishing quality of care. Like today's athletes are very uninterested in your feedback until they first know unequivocally that you have their back. So we need to start with connection. How well do you know the individuals on your roster? And a big misconception about connection is that connection needs to be volumes of time or in-depth conversations. They don't have to be. Connection can be established through quick touches. So when you walk into the gym, instead of saying, hey, how's it going? I'd say, hey Matt, how's it going? So I'm going to insert your name there. I'm going to make sure that, and I did this as an assistant coach, I knew there were athletes on our roster that were very unlikely to get playing time throughout the season. And so I took it upon myself to look out for those that might organically get less attention from our head coach specifically, especially when we were later in the season. They were less likely to get validation from their peers, recognition from others because they weren't actively competing in those moments. And so being intentional about making sure I got touches with those athletes every day. So at least they got someone that was actively seeking out connection with them. So I'd make sure and I'd go over here and I'd rebound for Mac. And then I'd go over and see Georgie and ask about the tests that they had earlier that day. So just small moments that are personalized, intentional, they don't have to be long. So connection can be created in small moments in subtle ways to make people feel seen, valued, and appreciated. As long as they feel connected to someone, and I say this often to coaches, you don't have to have a connection with every athlete on your team. As long as somebody on your staff does, that's enough. So as long as an athlete feels connected to someone on the staff, that's enough to create connection. But yes, if we hope to teach them, we first need to reach them. They've had access to information in an unprecedented way for previous generations. And I'm an elder millennial, I was born in 83. Before life with the internet, we could only get information from our coach. The coach was the sole knowledge keeper and authority on how to get better at our sport. Now they can pick up their phone and they have access to millions of experts. And after watching a short TikTok video, they can find ways to upskill themselves. They don't need you. The only thing they can't get from anything that they get on the internet is that personal connection. So that's a strategic advantage, a competitive advantage that a coach will always have. Now I know oftentimes we're challenged, hey coach, I saw this on TikTok. Why aren't we doing this? Right. Or my club coach said we should do this. How come we're not doing this? Right. So we feel challenged by their questions often. But when it comes to connection, that is a unique thing that coaches can create with today's athlete in a way that's different from anything technology can give them.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Awesome. And this really connects to a great question that we already got inside the community from Coach Morse. He's a tennis coach out in Washington. He asked about five-minute one-on-one player meetings that he has. He's specifically asking what kinds of questions can coaches ask so athletes can open up and feel valued. Yeah. What do you have on that front?

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Okay. Um, coach, first, I love five-minute meetings. That's one of the recommendations that I have in the book, Kids These Days. Again, connection can be established through small moments. And there is nothing more connective than a fantastic question. Now, context matters always. I mentioned that before. So depending on the athlete that you're seeking to connect with in those five minutes, you may find certain questions more or less effective. I would highly recommend anyone looking for questions, go to my Instagram account, Betsy underscore the coaches coach. I have so many different posts that are questions. We've got preseason questions, mid-season questions, postseason questions. There's questions to ask yourself as a coach, questions to ask your staff, questions to ask the parents of the athletes on your team, questions to ask potential recruited athletes, depending on the level of sport that you're working in, questions to ask the captains or leaders on your team. So if you're looking for new questions or different questions to change kind of the cadence of those five-minute meetings, the best recommendation I could offer is check out the Instagram account. You're gonna have to scroll back a little bit, but they're um all of the covers look the same. They're just in different colors, and it'll say questions to ask, blah, blah, blah. So check that out. Best resource I can offer in a short amount of time.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Love it. Do you have like a favorite one or two that you always kind of lean on or just Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Um, one that I'm very intentional about asking, especially if I'm meeting someone for the first time, particularly an athlete or a new client, let's say, for context's sake, a question that I'll often ask at the end that works very much like a catch-all is what haven't I asked that you feel is important for me to know or understand in order to best support you? Along the line of questions, um, this is often where I see the biggest gap between intention and impact. So, classic example, a lot of coaches today are trying to be very responsive to the athletes that they're working with. And so they'll ask a question like, Hey Matt, how do you like to be coached? Okay. Intention is great. I want to understand what works really well with you. Unintended negative impact is if you and I have had a conversation and I've asked, How do you like to be coached? And you've been very clear, very detailed, very specific, and I understand how you like to be coached. At some point, when I coach you differently, and for many coaches, this is often out of necessity based off of a team context separate from the individual. When I coach you differently than how you like to be coached, the athlete's interpretation is now often coach doesn't like me. Because I told them how I like to be coached, they're not coaching me that way, so obviously they don't care. And this was not at all the intention of the coach. The wording is the issue. If I ask how do you like to be coached, that's one thing. If I ask with a small shift in language, what's the most effective way to coach you, or what's the most effective way to motivate you or to work with you? Now, when I have to do something different, again, for a coach often out of necessity, it's not personal, it's situational. So at worst, I'm being less effective than I could be as a coach, but it doesn't translate to coach doesn't like me. And all we've done is shift one word. So our intention as coaches is often very high, depending upon our skills as a communicator. We often have unintended, sometimes negative impacts, especially within the coach-athlete relationship.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

And talking about just literally changing a word or two in a sentence or a question, you know, change the whole meaning of it. If a coach wants to improve their communication like immediately, is there another small shift you can think about that they can try later today or tomorrow at practice that will improve their communication skills?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yes. The first, if you want to stay with questions, is, and I'll say, I'll back up and say awareness is a prerequisite for change. It's very difficult for anyone to change something that they're not first aware of. So for any coach listening, start with awareness. If you're looking to, let's say, become more skilled at asking questions or to make some of those small shifts in language in the questions that you're currently asking, start with awareness. So start to take inventory. Most people have some kind of notes app in their phone. When you hear yourself ask a question, whether it's in an athlete meeting or to a parent or as part of training, make a little note about what questions you know you ask frequently. And then ask yourself, can I ask a better quality question? Like, is there some shift that if I made this shift, might create more space for the person to respond? Or if I made this small shift, it might more accurately point at the direction that I'd like for the conversation to go based off of the objective or the relationship that I have. So start with awareness. Like start by creating an inventory of what do I frequently say in terms of how I coach? What do I frequently ask in terms of the questions that I utilize? If you're looking to make a small shift today as a coach, number one recommendation would be start to become aware of how much you are talking versus asking. The best coaches I know at all levels of sport ask quality questions, and they tend to do a lot less telling than they do asking. Now, context matters always. There are absolutely moments where not only is it more expedient to tell, but it's necessitated that we tell someone what to do instead of asking them how they might do something. So time is always a constraint here and a consideration, very valid one. But just start to notice like how much are you talking at people versus talking with people versus asking people? Because it's a deeper level of learning, it's stickier learning when they tell us versus we tell them. So the more we can do that within our coaching worlds, the more effective we stand to be as coaches.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

And one thing some coaches can wrestle with is maintaining high standards while still building trust with athletes. Yep. How can coaches hold athletes accountable without those conversations becoming defensive?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yeah, um, it's interesting that we call them accountability conversations because if we look historically or broadly even at current accountability conversations, the timing of accountability conversations tend to be after something already has gone wrong or after something has already not happened. Once somebody hasn't done the thing they said they were going to do in the timeframe they said they were going to do it. So first we need to shift that conversation prior to that person having an opportunity to be accountable. Before we hold them accountable, we need to help ensure that they have the ability to be accountable. And if we look broadly at accountability conversations, they are often the coach telling the athlete what they did or didn't do, why they need to do it and how they could do it, and if they don't do it, what's going to happen next? This isn't a conversation. This is a monologue. I am talking at someone, I'm telling them, I'm not asking. So that's another big shift. If we're going to change the way we experience accountability, and you mentioned that defensiveness, Matt, then we need to start to change the way we have the conversation. So for me, prior to an athlete starting on that path of accountability, if I'm looking to uphold my standards or expectations, I need to start with the conversation around setting expectations. And again, if we look broadly across sport, the baseline that I see now for most coaches is when an athlete comes into their program, or at minimum at the beginning of a season, at some point there might share their team handbook, but they're going to be really clear about saying, as an athlete in this program, this is what I expect of you. And as an athlete in this program, here's what you can expect of me as your coach. That's kind of the standard for most coaches. The old school way was as an athlete in this program, here's what I expect of you. And that was it. It's expanded to involve, here's what you can expect of me. I would love to see it expand further and include two questions. We're going to ask the athletes, as an athlete in this program, what do you expect of me as your coach or us as your coaches? And also to ask our athletes, as an athlete in this program, what can I, as your coach, expect of you? And if I was facilitating this with a team, I would start with the questions. So before I ever show a slide or talk about my expectations, I'm going to ask the athletes, give them a piece of paper, something to write with, and say, I want you to write down all the expectations that you as an athlete have of me as your coach. Anything that comes to mind. And this is for you only, you're not going to share this with your teammates. So they write down whatever's true for them. And then I'm going to follow up that question, okay, as an athlete in this program, what can I, as your coach, expect of you? They write down whatever's true for them. Okay, so now they have their baseline. Then I'm going to share my expectations of them as an athlete and what they can expect of me. And as I do that, I'm going to invite them on their pieces of paper to cross off whatever expectations I talk about. So that by the time we finish those two pieces, the only thing left on their piece of paper are what for me falls into that bucket of unspoken expectations. Expectations they have or hold that have yet to be clearly communicated or discussed to create shared understanding. So if you want to uphold your standards or expectations, we need to have better quality conversations about those standards and expectations. And then when it comes to accountability, asking instead of telling. So I'm going to ask an athlete what needs to happen? What's their plan to make that happen? What might get in the way of their ability to execute the plan as they've articulated? And then whatever barriers they identify, asking again, what's their plan if and when one of those things arises? So already they're at a far better starting point because they have a plan for when something goes wrong versus letting something go wrong derail them from accountability. And then how can I support? And what's your next step? If you can get an athlete to take a first step and put them on that path of accountability before they've ever started or had an opportunity to fall off the wagon, they're better served. And because they've told us it's much easier for us to hold them accountable than if we've told them you have to do this in this way by this time or else. Okay. That's passive receptivity. It's not active communication or engagement. So when they tell us, we immediately increase ownership, engagement, accountability, which very much helps uphold our standards or expectations.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

And is this an annual exercise you recommend at the start of the year, or how often do you do something like this?

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Um, I think it's on some medication bottles, like take as often as necessary, right? So I would absolutely recommend this as a best practice at the beginning of the year. If you want to do this now, you can. And all that's required is modeling a little vulnerability, transparency, taking ownership, saying, hey, I realized that when I shared our expectations for the season at the beginning of the year, I wasn't as clear as I'd like to be. So we're going to do an exercise now to really refine our understanding so that we're all on the same page moving forward. That's all. That's all that's required. So you're modeling vulnerability, modeling, modeling humility, focusing the conversation with purpose, explaining the why, and then doing that activity. So you can do this at any time. When I say take as often as needed, if you've got someone, and this often happens someone who's, let's say, perspective of themselves, their abilities, their skills, or their Parents, depending on the level that you're coaching, is out of touch with reality. Because remember, again, like disappointment, frustration, fractured relationships grow and multiply in the gap between expectations and reality. Being able to clarify expectations with an individual at any time so that you have a better chance of meeting or exceeding expectations moving forward. And those unspoken expectations don't become problematic. And I really just refer to that as like level setting expectations. So set the standard and expectation and then level set as needed, whether it's individually or with the team, in order to support the best opportunity for shared understanding.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Since you've kind of studied Gen Z um athletes, what do coaches maybe misunderstand about this generation most?

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Oh gosh. This could be a much longer conversation. And I'll say the one of the biggest barriers, and sometimes it's due to misunderstanding. Sometimes it's a lack of awareness. There's a lot of judgment made about kids these days. And um I wish there was more understanding about why kids these days are the way they are. So comments I hear often that kids these days are soft, like kids these days don't know what hard work really is. Okay, any qualm you have with kids these days, this is an opportunity for us as coaches. And I very much put coaches in the camp of educators. If we see a deficit in an athlete that is of a younger generation, as an educator and someone who cares about their growth and development, it may be outside of the purview of the X's and O's of your sport, but that is an opportunity to help teach them a skill that's going to serve them in life. And we have to face the reality that even though we have experienced the changes in technology in the same way that they have experienced the changes in technology, we experience them at very different times. So the developmental age that we were as changes in technology began versus the developmental age they were and how technology shaped the world in which they grew up in, the impact is different. So the technology is the same, the impact is different. And because the impact is different, they're showing up differently. Things that used to be effective for us as coaches might not be as effective. We are so used to, as people, adapting to changes in our environment naturally. And I was using the example, like if you're driving and you see brake lights ahead, of course you're gonna tap your brakes because that keeps you safe. If I go to leave the house and I suddenly notice it's raining, I didn't check the weather, I'm gonna turn around and grab an umbrella or a rain jacket. Every new opponent you face, you're making small tweaks or adjustments to optimize your chance at success. And yet I see so many coaches be so resistant to making small shifts or changes, small adaptations to be more effective in working with today's athletes. So oftentimes the biggest barrier is I see a lot of coaches who are in their own way. And it's their judgments, their criticisms about why kids these days aren't the way they should be or the way they were, is often the more honest truth. And that doesn't serve your ability to connect with coach and succeed with the athletes in front of you. So always start with self, do a little evaluation, and then wherever there's pieces that can move, start to make small shifts. And it's absolutely important to me that coaches retain their authenticity and their integrity. So I don't want you to be someone you're not. I'm gonna invite you to make small adaptations to grow in the way that we ask our athletes to grow and develop to be more effective with working with today's athletes.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

This has been awesome, Betsy. And I got a couple quick more questions. But if a coach on this call or watching on the replay would want to work with you or get some of your resources, what's the best way they can go about doing that?

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Yeah, the best way would just go to BetsyButterip.com. So that's the website. You can link to all of my socials from there. There is also a um my calendar link is there. So if you want to have a focused conversation, you can sign up for a time to do that. The first one's free, more of an exploratory call about a coach's needs or what topics they'd like to cover. Um most often you can find me on Instagram and LinkedIn with two small children and now a puppy. I don't really have time to do all the socials. Um, Substack would also be a great place to get continual resources for communication, for a coach-athlete relationship. So it's free to subscribe on Substack. If you'd like to have information sent directly to your inbox without thinking about it or putting anything on your calendar, I'd say subscribe on Substack, go to the website for additional resource links. A lot of the podcasts that I've been on are also linked there. Um, and then the active videos on YouTube. So active communication techniques, there's 40, they're two minutes or less designed to give anybody, not just those of us in sports, something they can do today to impact the way we communicate and connect with each other. So all of those are available. Um, and I just really appreciate everyone taking the time to get on this call. And Matt, to you for the invitation. Thank you so much for asking me to share the space with you all.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Yeah, this has been awesome. And we will uh put a link in the recap on all those links. Two quick things. Is there something you would love coaches to stop saying?

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah, it's it's one of the earlier stories that I tell in the book, and the phrase is because I said so. Like if you're still saying that phrase, yeah, it doesn't it doesn't resonate with with kids these days. All it says, the translation is I'm the ego in charge, so shut up and listen. Like they need to understand the why. Technology has given them access to information with a few keystrokes from the time that they could type. And Google never says, Matt, that was an inappropriate time to ask that question, or I don't appreciate your tone or your wording. It just spits back information. So because I said so doesn't give them information.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

And if a coach you know walks away and tries to implement just one little thing today, you know, a shift or a mindset change from today's convo, what's maybe you hope they take most away that will impact them the most help or help?

SPEAKER_01 27:48

From our conversation, I would say awareness, like awareness of your questions, awareness of the impact, um, awareness of how frequently you are telling versus asking, creating a little more space for it to be a collaborative conversation. One topic we didn't touch on that I very much cover in the book is this idea of co-creation. So because technology has allowed athletes to customize so many elements of their world, not just sports, from an early age, that same expectation, although unspoken, often comes into their sport environment. We don't have to sacrifice anything about our position of authority to co-create with our athletes. This isn't doing whatever they prefer at whatever time they prefer to do it. This is being intentional about allowing them to have some input, some ownership in a greater way than many teams typically do of their sport experience. And by co-creating with them, we are increasing agency, accountability, ownership. All these are good things. These are things I hear coaches say all the time that they want more of. You can do that through co-creation. All it takes is your ability to look at what you're already doing and say, okay, where have I got a little wiggle room here? Where I can invite them to take ownership of this, or I can invite them to give me input on this, or I can invite them to just have more of a say, not to take your role, but to be a more collaborative, proactive part of what you're already doing.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Awesome. Well, Betsy, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today, your insights.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

You're welcome. Thank you again for the space. And I will, um, Matt, I'll email you, but I would love to offer a discount code for the book if anyone would like to purchase kids these days. If it feels like it's a resource that might be beneficial to you, I'd be happy to share with the community um in gratitude for our time together. So I'll send that your way right after this.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

That would be great. I'll add that to the recap. And Mike called Tommy. Thank you. Rocco says he loves the session.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Thanks, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

And Margo gave you a testimonial. Everyone should get and read Gipsy Day. So there you go. That's a real coach saying that. But good seeing everybody again. Betsy, thanks again for your time. Really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

My pleasure. Take care, y'all. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Hey, it's Matt. Thanks so much for listening. This conversation was originally recorded inside of Momentum Sessions, a free community for coaches who want to build stronger culture, better leaders, and more connected teams. Inside, you can join future conversations live, ask questions directly to our guests, watch the full video replays, and connect with other coaches who are taking this work seriously. Join us for free at Momentum Teams.com slash sessions. That's Momentum Teams.comslash sessions. We'll see you inside.